Question about a possible new placement....

[kyuball]

When I went to BG at around dusk today, I noticed a headstone belonging to a Herbert Sterling or Stewart or some such who had served in the military and died around 1961 propped up on the empty base that is across from, slightly to the left and down slope from the Infant Daughter grave.  I for some reason don't remember this from the last time I visited (I think around April this year.)  Is this something new?

[Matt743]

Long time lurker, first time poster reporting!

Wow, how interesting about this "new" marker. Kyuball, could you possibly take a picture of it and post it here? (I'm not in the country right now, and won't be able to get to the cemetery for a while) The thought of a marker being returned to the Grove is pretty awesome. If it's authentic, let's hope it doesn't disappear again.  :|

[kyuball]

Hmmm... I'm not sure if it's a return or a move from some other place (hell, maybe not eventhe grove itself!)  It's a flat, small piece of the sort that usually lays flat on the ground like a tablet.  It's as if it was uprooted and then propped up on a base that it does not belong on.  I just don't particularly remember it.  It would, however, be awesome if it was a return...

In any case, I will take a pic of it the next time I am out there.

[Matt743]

Ahh, I see, I see... Hmmm, well in any case, yet another mystery for BG!  :wink:

[Aten]

If there are supposed to be Tomb Stones in the pond why has`nt anyone tried to retrive them? I`m thinking that the pond is not that deep and in the summer when it`s warm it should be easy to retrieve any that may be there.

[chi489]

Well, first let me put it this way, i'm not squeamish about much..
but that pond just looks disgusting...
I'm not sure if i'd be willing to venture in there without a full biohazard suit..

[kyuball]

Not to mention general hazards that murky waters with bad visibility present such as jagged metal and maybe even rusty syringes from the days when it was THE place to do drugs in the southern Cook County suburbs.  However, someone in an earler post did say that he caught edible size fish there, so maybe the water isn't all THAT dirty?....... Nah, looks pretty gross...

[Matt743]

Although I'm sure that there must be something interesting in that pond, (Heck, my own dad is positive that construction equipment from 1970s work on the Midlothian Turnpike wound up in there) - I've always sort of questioned this story about gravestones winding up in there.
Those things are heavy, and assuming that a few guys were able to schlep even a small one one down to the edge of the water,  how far could they have actually chucked it in, without it still being visible today? Unless maybe a stone was shattered or something, and then the pieces tossed in... who knows.

In any case though, I myself wouldn't mind finding out what's down there in the "murky depths". I won't be the first to volunteer to explore though!  

[Aten]

Matt I really don`t think the pond is very deep at all. About 15 yrs ago I tried fishing it and never got a nibble. As long as you ware shoes no need to worry about glass or metal. You are right about a large stone making it to the pond would have to be many strong people to make it there to begin with. However the smaller ones could easily of been cast into the pond. Maybe in the summer if anyone would like to try we could possibly retrive any stones if they are there and put them back in the cemetery. :?:

[Matt743]

With all this talk of the famed and legendary missing gravestones, I've also started to wonder.... What happened to all the ones that were stolen over time? The ones that, as a previous poster once put it, wound up in people's car trunks and the like. There are those couple that the Tinley Park Historical Society has, but all the others still have to be out there somewhere.

[Aten]

Matt I read somewhere that the Chgo. Police Dept. had some of the stones from BG but they never made it back to the cemetery! It would be nice if anyone who knows who took the stones would just get them back if they are still around no questions asked and just put them back where they rightfully belong. Thats a big one to ask but you never know maybe it could happen. I know I remember there were a lot of tombstones in that cemetery back in the early 70`s and whats left now is sad. We tryed to go there in 1974 when you could drive in there and we no sooner got in and the county mountie came and made us leave. He was ok we just told him we wanted to see the place and he even shined his spotlight all around so we could see what it looked like.

[Matt743]

Oh yeah Aten, that sounds familiar, I think I've read that too. I'm sure they're around out there somewhere, I mean, I can't imagine that they would have gotten rid of them. (Then again, who knows... ) Unless they took them to the pond and threw them in there themselves, (haha) I can't see how they could've disposed of them.

I wonder if anyone out there has any connections with the Chicago Police Department?

Cool story about that cop too.   '74 was before my time, so I only know the cemetery in that era from photos. (Like the ones on Pete's site) I've got a question Aten - Aside from a lot more stones, did the cemetery look any different back then?

[Aten]

Yes Matt it sure did look different. The cemetery was a bit overgrown and the vandelism was for sure there spray paint ect.  but it did get worse in time. The fence was more intact and no downed trees but you could see people partied there as there was a spot where they had a camp fire and tons of beer cans. My cousin went there in the late 50`s and got thrown out at gun point from the law and he told me that some of the graves were sunken in from people either trying to dig them up or attempted to dig them up. Back then he told me it was a place to go makeout with your girlfriend and the stories were even around then that the place was haunted. The blue light and the house that appeared and then vanished. I remember about the blue light they said it would lead you away from the cemetery and you could never catch it. Personally I never seen anything there paranormal but sure do believe it exists. When I was about 15 I remember a thing that happened in the Mt. Greenwood Cemetery these 3 or 4 people went in there to drink and party and got very drunk. Then they decided to dig up a grave, they were caught and believe it or not these AHoles had a skull from the womans grave and were sitting on the Grand Trunk R.R. pouring beer in the skulls mouth. When my friends and I ever went into that cemetery to drink we never went on the graves to do this we were at the back of the cemetery and respected the place and we sure did get drunk but never ever did any of us want to disturb the dead. Why all this bad stuff happened at BG i`ll just never know but am so gald that Pete had the insight to follow through with cleaning up the place. I honestly have never see it look so nice and yes there are not as many stones there now but it looks more like a cemetery instead of party heaven. I would like to see the downed trees cut up and maybe if there is another cleanup of the place a chainsaw could be brought to do that job, I for sure would do it but don`t own one myself. Lets hope that the people that took the stones will return them if they still have them and the place could get even better. One day I would like to do a night time visit to BG and have a paranormal experience.

[Matt743]

Wow Aten, those really are some creepy stories... (especially that one from Mt. Greenwood, youch) I remember seeing some pictures of BG on Pete's website from the 70s, (I think they were part of some newspaper clippings) and I was shocked at how totally trashed the place was back then. It was really eerie just to look at those photos.

That's also quite a story from your cousin! I find it interesting how stories from the 50s keep popping up, because usually whenever you read about BG, it says that the "activity" there could be traced back to the 60s. There's another clipping on Pete's site somewhere that talks about some ghostly happenings in or around 1959.  

Yeah, a night visit would be cool! I've never been up there then, I can't make up my mind whether or not it would be really interesting, or really spooky, haha. (Maybe both?   )

[Aten]

Hey Matt I was at BG today around 1:00pm and it was a bit cold but that new stone was there for sure. I could`nt believe it man there were a lot of beer cans and even a disposible camera laying on the ground. I met 4 people there and they were respectful of the place and even put their cigerette butts in their pockets. I wish I would of brought a bag with me as the junk is starting to accumulate again. I managed to pick up some of the junk and found a empty 12 pack box to put the junk in and carried it out to Rubio & put it in the trash can. One of the girls there thanked me for picking up the litter and this guy Ryan said he was going to bring a bag the next time he goes there. This young lady was taking pictures and something showed up a white mist it looked like and she said her camera was acting up a little too! She said at times it had red lines through the screen. I also put 2 little teddy bears by the infant daughters stone to show respect for that loss. Someone through a pumpkin on the ground there and a little bit of broken glass on the groung as well. Why the hell can`t these people just pack out what they bring in? Whenever I go camping I don`t ever leave rubbish at the site I either put it in a waste can or take it with me. You would just think after the place was cleaned up people would just get the idea not to litter. :cry:  There is a lot of cans and paper along the trail and I think i`ll bring a good size bag next time and cash in on the cans that are there. I`m betting just maybe I can get enough to buy a case of beer LOL. Let me know when you go back and look at the junk and new stone that is there now.

[Aten]

Hey Kyuball you were so right about that new stone. When I was there in August that stone was not there as I took pictures of all the stones and I checked my album and that one is not there. I like you hope that is a return to BG and hope maybe more will show up. I was thinking maybe since the leaves are almost gone a scouring of the woods there just might turn up a few more stones who knows but it is a possibility. I also noticed that someone is leaving messages with a magic marker on a few of the stones even the base where the new stone has been placed it is also dated August of this year. Some kind of warning to someone, really weird so maybe if there is another cleanup the graffiti can be removed again. :?:

[kyuball]

Thanks for confirming the sighting, Aten.  However, I wonder if it is one that indeed belongs to BG or some dude just brought it back and put that scribble about "beware" underneath it to be funny.  There was some mention here some time ago about getting burial records and such.  If Herbie does belong there, it would be even more awesome to find the origial location of his burial and replace it there as the stone does not seem that hard to move.

Also, Aten, did you check out the pics that I posted of Herbie on a separate thread?

[Aten]

Hey Kyuball I sure did and they were good pics very clear. That message that is on the base stone I seen on another stone there too! Someone I guess with nothing better to do just wants to deface the stones all over again it seems. I think it would be great if Herbie in fact is buried there and to put the stone on his grave. This would sure be a good thing as he is a veteran and the taking of his stone and any other stone for that matter is just plain dumb and disrespectful. I wonder if the Tinley Park Historical Society would have the burial records? I am thinking too that maybe some of the stones possibly could be in the woods there. Now would be a good time to look around as the leaves are mostly down and getting through the woods would be a lot easier as the vegitation is dead as well. I`m sure of one thing that there is some money in cans out there LOL! I was sure surprised at the litter in the cemetery because it was entirely clean when I was there in Aug.

[Anonymous]

I have all the info on Hebert's stone, I did research on it after on found it there on July 6th.  I saw that he was a war vet and it was a military stone so I contacted the military and spoke with a person in the Vet Admin office.

I gave him all the info and he did research on it.  He called me back a few hours later with all the info on Herbert.

Herbert was buried at Cedar Park Cemetery (Calumet Park,  Illinois)  I called Cedar Park Cemetery to ask them about it, they did some research too and here is what i found...........2 months after Herbert was laid to rest in 1966, his marker was changed to a larger family marker.  So this is a extra marker....that has just turned up after 42 years, and in Bachelor's Grove for some reason?

Also on a side note, as of two weeks ago the marker is gone, probably in the lagoon with the rest.

[kyuball]

Hmmmm...... sounds like some douche bags got their hands on the marker before or after it was disposed.  It's good to know that someone went there to confirm that the stone is no longer there (I have been in the area for some time and I hate going in there when the ground conditions are bad) so that we don't have to think about it anymore.  

I don't think it's in the lagoon.  I will bet money that either some other miscreants took it for shits and giggles or the original people who put it there are taking it for a tour of local cemeteries.  Maybe someone should go to Archer Woods and see if it has made a tour stop there? Hehehehehehe...

[Aten]

Good to know that the stone was replaced a very long time ago. Maybe whoever took it found it in a pile of old stones at Cedar Park Cemetery and thought this would be cute. Thanks to everyone who had their hand in helping with this.